Decomplexicating Equine Nutrition Part 08 of 12 – The Importance of Protein ( Moved to community.thehorsesadvocate.com )
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Hi Doc T, what are your thoughts on Copra as a protein source? Is it a good substitute for SBM?
Desiree – Soybean meal (SBM) has all the essential amino acids (EAA’s) and has a bioavailability of 80%.
According to fitaudit.com, in 100g of SBM there are 49g of protein, 36g carbs and 2.5g fat and 337 calories. Coconut meal or meat (what you are calling “Copra”) is 3g protein, 15g carbs and 34g fat and 354 calories.
Coconut meal is a great source of non-inflammatory fat and is a good way to add weight in fat to horses, especially old horses having trouble maintaining their condition. But it is NOT a good protein source and is NOT a substitute for SBM.
Thank you, Dr Tucker, for the explanation. I have voraciously consumed so much of this information here over the past three days, what a gift to us all (and then everyone we pass it along to)! My horses have been grain-free for ~9 yrs but I’ve seen a gradual decline in the topline of the 19 yo OTTB. I thought it was age. Since, according to CoolStance, copra has 20% protein (https://stanceequineusa.com/products/cool-stance/), I always thought I was providing a good source for the past 8 yrs. Now I see the differences in EAAs. My new 3 yo (just turned) has lost a lot of topline in just a few months of ownership, so that’s what led me to finally discovering your blog. The day after I read it all night, I picked up SBM and organic alfalfa pellets, and started the journey. I can’t wait to share outcomes!
[…] ills and unsoundness in horses today with the secondary development of chronic protein deficiency (https://theequinepractice.com/decomplexicating-equine-nutrition-08-**the-importance-of-protein/) that I talk so much about. It is very important to understand that if glucose is fed […]
What is the name of a company that sells the soybean meal online?….i can not find it anywhere around middle TN?
I know they will ship SBM but you will need to buy 1000 pounds or more or the shipping will bee expensive. Google searches will help you find someone.
Please join the Facebook private group called “The Horse’s Advocate” for 1) a faster response time and 2) advice from others who have found it hard to find SBM in their areas.
Only have 2 horses. So 1000lbs of SBM wouldn’t work….i did join the horses advocate and have read every blog there is some twice…
Besides methionene what are the other two limited amino acids in a horse?
Lysine and threonine
How much protein or what percentage is bioavailable from grains. (I don’t personally consider grain as a protein source, Ohhh I need protein, lets eat bread and pasta, ha ha-nope) I assume it is lower than 50%
I am not sure of the bioavailability of protein from grains. But the important thing to note about grains is that they cause gut inflammation and is behind the chronic protein deficiency in horses. Therefore I am not sure if the proteins in these plant d=seeds ever make it into the horses’ body. Good question but remember, the bioavailability of protein is measured in a healthy gut, not in an inflamed gut.
Doc T, Melissa Buday was at my barn last week doing teeth on my almost 9 year old OTTB 17-3 HH. I really enjoy meeting her and watching her horsemanship and the way she dealt with Royale my hat goes of to her!
Melissa mentioned the no grain inflammatory approach to consider for royale’s diet. I was curious to learn more about it, at the end of her visit she left a nice gift package I found very thoughtful and informative. Within this package there was lots of great information and especially an article “special issue on nutrition” that explained in a very simple way why chronic protein deficiency in horses is so prevalent today. I am practicing everything your article claims not to do and Royale being a hard keeper and our misconception that adding more protein can only help. I keep adding more of the wrong kind of protein. I am taking the challenge and we are eliminating grain and go hay! hay! hay! and maybe some alfalfa cubes for breakfast with the cool stance I currently feed. I am Cancelling, cool calories, msm, beet pulp w molasses and the four scoops of sweet feed and pellet feed, I feed him 2 in the am and 2 in the pm. He has always been in good quality T&A or O&A hay. I also mix soy oil on his feed four pumps ( should I suspend?) However, what soy bean meal amount should I feed if I can find it? Should I mix with the cubes? How much of the Pro Add Ultimate without corn should I feed?
Thank you for your research and sharing your experience, makes sense.
Walter M
Thanks Walter for thanking us for the reading material. My wife put a lot of effort into creating and packaging those and believe it or not, you are the first to write a thank you note. She and I appreciate it.
I am glad you are trying the no-grain challenge. However, the soy oil is also inflammatory (at least for humans) so you should stop this as well.
Get de-hulled soybean meal with either pressed or chemically extracted oil. Either way does not affect the horse’s gut. This comes in many protein supplements including ProAdd Ultimate (Progressive Nutrition / Nutrena). If you feed ProAdd then you do NOT need to add soybean meal. ProoAdd can be mixed with the hay cubes or fed on its own. Horses love it (a pellet).
Thanks for your kind words about Melissa. I passed them on to her. Doc T
Hi Doc T, I did add soy and whey protein (75:25) to Tap’s food. It has only been a week. His topline is gone and his coat is showing signs of deficiency. The rest of the food is bermuda hay and alfalfa pellets. Thanks for all your help. Lynne
Given the Plant Paradox and that diary animals produced that which they eat, lectin-heavy milk, you still recommend whey? Why? Has the lectins been removed from the whey during cheese-making? I also questioned Dr. Gundry’s logic when he indicates whey as safe to eat. Do you know why it is safe from lectins? Thanks.
From Wikipedia: “Whey protein is the collection of globular proteins isolated from whey. The protein in cow’s milk is 20% whey protein and 80% casein protein”
The lectin in milk from B&W Holsteins is in the casein part derived from a gene mutation. There are no known lectins in the whey portion.
Really interesting series (think I have missed a couple). When you say a grain free protein supplement, do you mean something like lupins? Mung beans, chic peas, faba beans? I have taken my horses off soy products for over 6 months, because of the possibility of being GMO modified & also being more inflammatory (compared to something with omega 3’s in it). Lately the horses are being fed lucerne (alfalfa) in the morning & grassy lucerne at night, with grass all day (we’ve had a good season) :). I went off any manufactured feeds because many of them were high in iron & apparently where we are in Australia, it’s not needed. So i started on copra meal, a little rice bran & then started adding lupins. I also ground up linseed &french millet seed, then added a mix of herbs etc (turmeric, chamomile, brewers yeast, Dolomite , ginger, celery seed, seaweed meal etc). Not sure whether that’s on the right track or not. 🙂 Thanks for your info. Cheers Andrea 🙂 (Qld, Australia)
Thanks for reading these blogs!
All foods are genetically modified – even the grass planted in the field. Soy was the first to be modified for glyphosate but there have been no known diseases in horses attributed directly to GM food of any kind. It is a good debate if GM foods affect the gut microbes.
This said, when you feed a variety of protein sources you will be supplying a broad spectrum of the limiting amino acids. Remember that if you are low in just one essential amino acid, you will be low in all the proteins that AA makes. So the more the merrier until the horse has reestablished the proteins needed every day. Then the recycling program will work with little more exogenous protein added.
Also legumes such as soy are OK for horses but not for humans. The short chain fatty acids derived from cellulose keeps things happy. The Omega 3 v 6 debate rages in the human world but I am not sure about the hind gut fermenter. Remember that the human and the horse differ greatly when looking at the raw materials and their conversion into fuel within the gut. However, everything after the absorption of these fuels is the same. Placing raw materials into a horse that should not be there will cause inflammation. Soy bean meal so far doesn’t seem to have an inflammatory effect on the gut lining. I do not know about the other protein sources you mentioned. I am suggesting to avoid any bran or soft seeds due to the lectins (coming up in another blog). I believe their inflammatory effect on the gut wall in many horses is worse than any GM food. In fact, in the debate about GM food and pesticides and fertilizers, the effect of lectins is missing yet very relevant. By feeding horses just the things they normally find on the ground and supplementing for a year or two with extra protein (soy, whey) appears to be helping so many horses without any side effects. Keep it simple. Feed a horse with the things it would find in the field at the time of year it’s grazing. If needed, add non-inflammatory things that act like a pre-biotic (food for the gut microbes). This might include coconut meal which I think you call copra meal.
Changing beliefs isn’t easy but if what you are doing isn’t working, at least these blogs will open up other avenues for thought of what might.
Interesting article. Do you recommend any foods/supplements, etc.. for a horse with chronic Lyme disease? I’ve tried almost everything. Thanks for any help.
This is between you and your vet. But the theme of what I am offering in these blogs is this: It is NOT the addition of things to the horse’s diet but IS the removal of things including “foods and supplements” that don’t belong in the guts and may be causing inflammation. It is the paradigm that we need a quick fix by adding something missing in the diet when it really is that we need to remove the causes of inflammation and allow the gut microbes to re-establish themselves to make the horse healthy.
In other words – we give the horse raw materials that feed the gut microbes. They in turn produce the fuels that feed the mitochondria. They in turn provide the energy for the horse to survive and thrive. Adding raw materials that kill or change the gut microbes or that cause leakage of foreign things into the horse bypassing the defense mechanism is what causes the horse to become unthrifty, ill, lame, misbehave and in general, not live at a peak level. Best thing is that in feeding a horse like a horse (not a human, dog, goat, pig or other animal) it actually becomes less expensive.
I missed the research that proves all of the above listed diseases are a result of protein deficiency.
Exactly – there is no research. But there is evidence that SOMETHING isn’t working. This idea that there is a chronic protein deficiency from mitochondrial fatigue due to daily carbohydrate dependency is certainly worth looking into.
There was plenty of evidence that the sun circled the Earth. Until someone asked simple questions about length of day and change of seasons. To me, it has become obvious that horses are breaking down in connective tissue and in health. And the research isn’t looking at history or the simple solutions. People who have tried eliminating inflammation from grain and byproducts and supplementing with protein have seen improvement in so many categories. But it is still too early to tell if it solves everything. But all that is being done today is not curing or improving the health of horses.
It is the job of someone smarter than me to do the research (without an agenda or the support of the industry). In the meantime, frustrated horse owners are trying this and finding improvements in many different areas. All without spending money on a supplement or a service, but all based on what is now known in science. Basically – sugar fed throughout the year to horses will add fat at the expense of protein (muscle and other sources). Removing or reducing glucose at least during part of the year will allow the horse to use body fat for fuel without affecting the muscles of the top line and other protein sources.
Rachael – will you be the one to do the research? Or do you know of someone?
WOW more good information. I had to re-read some of it. Please keep the information coming.