Chronic Protein Deficiency In Horses ( Moved to community.thehorsesadvocate.com )
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Progressive is a progressive product. Nutrena is a nutrena product. BOTH companies are owned by Cargill. Btw…Pro add ultimate is FANTASTIC!!!!!
I am interested in your news letter and I see it is under construction. The horses advocate . It says I need a password to access the site. Can you send a password for access. Is there a fee for access? If so how much?
Thanks Chrystal – The site will be going through some major changes this summer and as time goes on, it will look worse! My plan is to soon announce an alternative for people like you who want to sign up before construction is complete. Until then, please go to https://theequinepractice.com/equine-practice-rounds/ and fill in the form to receive any announcements from me about this.
There will be free content as well as more in-depth content that can be purchased either one topic at a time or a module filled with relavent topics (like a song or an album). In addition, I also will have some courses that will include Horsemanship Is Leadership™, The basics of owning a horse, advanced horse ownership and more for those who want to be held accountable as well as interact with me as a mentor.
Hope to see you there! Doc T
Hi Doc Tucker! I was so relieved to read this article, as I had experienced something similar to your poster above, Nichole Steele. Not in just 1 horse tho…. in all of mine (6 at one point). You were right… lack of protein in the diet was a major issue here. I do believe that this is partly what causes metabolic syndrome in the first place. Much oxidative stress on the body when it is in a catabolic state. Take this issue X years and at some point metabolic disease and or endocrine issues … or both will raise their ugly head. Not to mention trashed feet. I know this from personal experience as I have a genetic predisposition to metabolic syndrome, and all of my organic acids testing consistently showed a lack of protein. For years I did not eat right since I was always battling my weight. Sounds familiar when all the vets I know tell you to take your fatso horse off grass and feed him crappy hay. I am here to say that skinny horse does NOT equal no metabolic syndrome!
In my case poor digestion has hindered my progress, and I do believe that our horses have this issue as well…. look at all the ulcer horses out there and every one (them and us) on Prilosec. Whey, soy and other novel proteins have been very helpful here including alfalfa pellets in small amounts. I am still tweaking things, but have been at it now for over 2 years. Things MUCH better but not fixed yet. And by the way, I have not fed grain since 2004.
Meanwhile, I thought I would throw out there that lack of dietary folate (which is not FOLIC ACID btw) may be putting a stick in the spokes. As you mentioned in your article, many horses out there do not have access to decent pasture. Most are being kept on nubs, often due to insulin resistance. In the summer I am still stuck in this mess here too, even tho I have decent pasture available. Nubs are the worst of the worst of course. But, getting back to folate, it is a critical player in the methionine cycle (methylation). Wild horses would not have a ton of access to methionine directly, but they WOULD have continual access to reasonable amounts of folate, even during most of the winter months. When folate is adequate, methionine gets recycled, so probably in a natural setting requirements for methionine would be lower. This is just a guess… I have genetics which cause a hiccup in methylation (many people do) and the bypass for this is methylfolate, the active form of folate. BTW, I cannot even convert the folate in food very well, again, those genetics. Folic acid will actually make the problem worse as conversion to usable folate requires many enzymatic steps and uses up many methyl donors. Often it gets stored an un-metabolized folic acid so blood tests for folate will be adequate or even high. This is VERY taxing on the body. The answer for me was…. you guessed it…. good sources of COMPLETE PROTEIN along with methylfolate. I am much better and so are my horses.
I mention this because I could only find 1 person, an equine nutritionist who did her dissertation on the possibility of a similar genetic issues in horses. She found that folic acid was not only not helpful in most horses’ diets, but actually made certain matters worse when combined with certain meds. I know this is a little off topic… but it might be the next thing we should all be looking into to try to get our buddies back on track. Meanwhile I have seen some benefit here by adding active forms of all B vitamins including methylfolate and methylcobalamin, and things such as TMG to help keep homocysteine levels in check. Don’t really know the impact from a blood work standpoint tho. No one really looks at this in horses.
ANYWAY…. I am so grateful for what you have taught in this article. It IS critical info, and I am so sick of the mainstream (including those who work up the NRC guidelines – my neighbor with her PhD is one) telling me that a healthy horse can be maintained on hay. The best timothy hay I have ever tested (and I have tested a lot) came in at 9% protein, and that was stellar first cutting. Best teff hay was more like 12%. The horses do like it better. But with these low numbers for crude protein, and the ability of most horses to only be able to stuff in about 20-25 pounds if that, it is easy to see how they can come up WAY SHORT on protein.
Thanks again! I will be sticking with your site for more good info!
Hugs! Kim C 🙂
[…] Chronic Protein Deficiency in Horses […]
I’ll make a very long journey very short. I had a appy with chronic founder for three years. He would founder same day every year(summer solstice) three years in a row. It would take him a year to recover and then bam. He had all the ir/cushings signs. Cresty neck fat pockets. Older in his 20’s. He was on a diet of grass hay only. After foundering we did all the things vets say to for his condition. Supplements geared towards insulin resistance ect. I started to do a lot of research after the third bout and realized we were starving him of nutrients. Protein being a main one. He needed protein cause those are the building blocks of amino acids and he desperately needed them. Out of desperation one day I tossed him a flake of alfalfa thinking if we were going to lose him because he was in so much pain it can’t hurt. I did that in the am and by that evening he was walking great. Strutting his stuff. That was more than ten years ago and he’s never had another founder episode. Adding protein to his diet is exactly what he needed. Thank you for this article!
Thanks for this story. Alfalfa is a legume that has nitrogen that is important in the formation of all the non-essential amino acids as well as it has some of the essential amino acids. I always recommend several sources of protein (hay, legume hay, a mixed pasture, soy beans, whey, and others such as flax and dried egg whites) to help provide all of the essential amino acids.
The hoof is made of one protein called keratin and 26% of this is just one amino acid. It is cystine and the horse actually converts methionine into cystine. Unique to these are the sulfur molecules which in cystine can actually join together creating a folding of the amino acid creating a stronger protein. These are called disulfide bonds and are extremely important in the connection of the horny tissue of the hoof with the sensitive laminae. It is this connection that breaks down in laminitis (inflammation of the laminae) and I suggest that while insulin resistance is part of the breakdown process, horses with an abundant supply of all amino acids but especially methionine have a better chance of resisting and even avoiding laminitis.
One more thing. There are 3 “limiting” amino acids in the horse meaning that these AA’s are hard to find in the wild. They are Lysine, Threonine, and (you guessed it) Methionine.
Lets all try to prevent laminitis. Stop feeding grain and start feeding a variety of protein sources aiming for 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight.
I started my horse on the Pro-Add supplement after doing a lot of research on thrush. My horse had knee surgery and after being on stall rest and only being let out in a small paddock with no grazing, his coat had gotten dull, tail rubbing, thrush, his top line had disappeared and he had chronic problems with lameness. He is also on very little grain due to the fact that he gains weight easily. After being on the Pro-Add supplement, all of these problems have disappeared. He is doing great and looks great. He has been on the supplement for about two months now. No more thrush.
This is music to my ears. Please everyone – read this comment and try it yourself. Chronic protein deficiency is real and easily corrected in all horses.
Thank you so much for sharing this!! Doc T
Would love to hear your opinion on a supplement called Top line!
Go to http://www.thehorsesadvocate.com/protein-sources-for-horses/ – you will need to login first
Good profound article, thanks, and I found something that includes all recommendations : Life Data Labs “Barn Bag” available through vets
Go to http://www.thehorsesadvocate.com/protein-sources-for-horses/ – you will need to login first
[…] Chronic Protein Deficiency In Horses – The Equine Practice … – L ook at this sentence. It is made up of words and each of those words are made up of letters. There are 26 letters from which all the words are made and all the … […]
Since all I have is broodmare and young horses.hay us a grass mix average.you say no grain? Then what am I to feed them?
Many horse owners ask this questions. It comes from their beliefs of what they have been taught. And often these beliefs are hard to overcome. This is why I call it a “2 week no-grain challenge.” If in 2 weeks you don’t see a difference, then just go back to what you were feeding. With the exception of weight loss in older horses, no other horse has had an adverse reaction to removing inflammatory grain from the diet. Please read again thoroughly this article and watch the HorseTalk webcast on the no grain challenge as well as all the material on chronic protein deficiency. After this, if you have some questions, please ask it here. Thanks, Doc T
I would like your opinion of Soy being very oestrogenic and not good for hormonal issues (IR etc).
Also, the fact that most Soy is also GM and has been sprayed with roundup which can cause leaky gut etc?…
This question is asked a lot. So far there are no reports of feminization of horses on soy, but I have one client who said she has had one horse get enlarged mammary glands.
My premise is that horses are chronically low in protein. Insulin Resistance (IR) has an unclear cause and I don’t think soy has an effect because horses with IR are not being fed soy (or enough protein of any source).
Genetic modification has occurred in every plant and animal on the planet with some naturally occurring and some created artificially. There are many sources of protein and if you are concerned with a GM soy, look for other sources. Remember, the more sources of protein, the better distribution of amino acids leading to a decreased deficiency of an amino acid. This said, we have a surplus of soy beans in America now and the cost is very low. With 80% absorption, soy becomes an economical and efficient source of protein for horses.
In light of most horses I know receiving half of their protein requirements and that source is usually of one source (forage), it makes sense to supplement with any other source to meet the requirements of horses to maintain, build and thrive.
Wouldn’t lupins be a better source of protein? I have a horse that suffers from ulcers & I avoid feeding grains. I feed a fibre based diet, so have been adding lupins to supplement his protein uptake, especially as recently he has lost his topline. How much would you suggest I feed of lupins? Thanks
All legumes are good sources of protein. But it is more complicated. All horses should receive a variety of amino acids. The broader the sources of protein the better the chance that more amino acids will be available. However, the absorption of legume protein is not as good as whey or soy. I’m glad you are grain free. I suspect that the inflammation from grain may also prevent the full absorption of protein.
The feeding of lupins is something I don’t know about so I am unable to comment specifically, but horses in the wild will pick around the environment and sample diverse forages including lichen on rocks.
Thank you so much for this in depth information. Blessings.
Thank you
Excellent article. Thank you. Will your webinar cover protein for PSSM 2 horses?
I believe that a lot of health issues in horses can be related to a chronic deficiency in protein intake. However with Polysaccharide storage myopathy (PSSM) a defect in the genetic code has been identified as the cause that can be traced back to the Crusades era when horses were bred with muscles to carry the armored knights. I look forward to getting the basic information on protein out to horse owners, but there is a lot more to discuss and identify.
Very interesting. Appreciate all the info. I do think one of the main causes of so many previously unseen health issues in horses is the use of vaccines. Same with dogs and cats.
If horses have a good topline and coat, is it safe to assume they are not protein deficient?
Vaccinations are getting a lot of bad press and there are a lot of questions about over-vaccination. Remember, always vaccinate for diseases that will kill your horses – rabies and tetanus. These are horrible deaths and I have seen both personally (even given post rabies exposure protocol).
Thanks for your thoughts.
I am being overwhelmed with questions about protein and don’t have time to reply to them all. I will add your question to the list of questions to answer on the webcast on Sunday November 6 at 7pm eastern.
You can register or watch the replay on my website TheHorsesAdvocate.com/HorseTalk
Thank you for reading my thoughts about chronic protein deficiency. I hope you can attend the webcast.
Thank you for the article about protein for horses. I board my horses so controlling food is an issue. We are not athletes. Just ride for fun. Trot at most. My horse’s topline fell apart last Spring. It had been a cold winter so I wasn’t exercising him much either. I didn’t know if it was my fault or poor feed. He was not happy and I realized my saddle was pressing on his withers so I was riding him less and less which didn’t help. I started feeding him Cadence Ultra and doing ground work instead of riding which wouldn’t hurt his back. Then I discovered Intrinzen and started doing that a bit. I bought a new saddle too. We went to Icefarm for a month and I rode him almost daily. He and his back have really come along now and I am riding him regularly. I wonder about soy – I thought we humans were to limit soy consumption. Also I would like to figure out how to improve my own diet in relation to the information in your article. I also have a question that is not horse related. When you said that poor quality food causes the urine and barn smell like ammonia, my first thought was pig farms and the complaints about odor. Also when farmers are fertilizing fields, we often smell ammonia. Is this related? Are pigs fed poor quality feed as well? I am not a pig owner but I still want to know…everything about everything apparently. Thank you.
Thanks
I am being overwhelmed with questions about protein and don’t have time to reply to them all. I will add your question to the list of questions to answer on the webcast on Sunday November 6 at 7pm eastern.
You can register or watch the replay on my website TheHorsesAdvocate.com/HorseTalk
Thank you for reading my thoughts about chronic protein deficiency. I hope you can attend the webcast.
Honestly, I’ve found that the toplines of my horses suffer when on no-grain, high protein and high fat diets. They simply get fat with no topline. My hay, which is tested, is low carb, moderate protein and higher than average fat. In my experience with this hay, adding oats is what puts the topline on. Sometimes I wonder if certain (non-diseased) horses have a higher muscle glycogen requirement and rob the horse of prorein to make it.
What were people feeding 40 years ago?
We fed oats and soybean along with great pasture and great hay 40 years ago. All animals need some sugar along with their protein. Protein is the materials and sugar is the energy needed to put them together. I did not advocate a high fat diet. I recommend no grain but only recommend low starch hay and pasture with insulin resistant horses.
Thanks
I am being overwhelmed with questions about protein and don’t have time to reply to them all. I will add your question to the list of questions to answer on the webcast on Sunday November 6 at 7pm eastern.
You can register or watch the replay on my website TheHorsesAdvocate.com/HorseTalk
Thank you for reading my thoughts about chronic protein deficiency. I hope you can attend the webcast.
What kind of whey/ soy do i need to feed? Just get it in a ‘human’ groceryshop?
Just buy whey in a fitness shop ??
Feed her soms eggs trough the mash? (It becomes scrambles eggs for sure)
What exact available product can i feed my horse?
Thanks
I am being overwhelmed with questions about protein and don’t have time to reply to them all. I will add your question to the list of questions to answer on the webcast on Sunday November 6 at 7pm eastern.
You can register or watch the replay on my website TheHorsesAdvocate.com/HorseTalk
Thank you for reading my thoughts about chronic protein deficiency. I hope you can attend the webcast.
Love your article. For extra protein I add 3/4 cup of hemp meal 17% protein , to my ration as well as 30mls of lysine . Would it wise to add the other two amino acids if so how much?
Thanks
I am being overwhelmed with questions about protein and don’t have time to reply to them all. I will add your question to the list of questions to answer on the webcast on Sunday November 6 at 7pm eastern.
You can register or watch the replay on my website TheHorsesAdvocate.com/HorseTalk
Thank you for reading my thoughts about chronic protein deficiency. I hope you can attend the webcast.
Excellent, well researched and useful information. Thank you.
Thanks
Very interesting article. What about the age, I think that feed with excessive amount of protein a foal or a young horse mainly , also a adult, can be very dangerour.the amount between 0,25 to 0,75 pounds of whey/soy looks inaccurate and therefore dangerous.
Most problems with foals or young horses is from the sugar of grain causing the developmental orthopedic diseases associated with very rapid growth. Excess protein when used as the source of energy will be converted to urea and excreted in the urine (ammonia smell). However, a chronic deficiency in protein has other dangerous problems such as lameness, hoof deformity, and poor performance leading to fatigue related injuries. The National Research Council recommends these values.
I am being overwhelmed with questions about protein and don’t have time to reply to them all. I will add your question to the list of questions to answer on the webcast on Sunday November 6 at 7pm eastern.
You can register or watch the replay on my website TheHorsesAdvocate.com/HorseTalk
Thank you for reading my thoughts about chronic protein deficiency. I hope you can attend the webcast.
Where would I find whey and soy. A lot of soy is genetically modified. I give my older Paint nonGMO alfalfa cubes soaked in water. He is also fed Nutrena Pro force senior feed. Thanks Jolly
Thanks
I am being overwhelmed with questions about protein and don’t have time to reply to them all. I will add your question to the list of questions to answer on the webcast on Sunday November 6 at 7pm eastern.
You can register or watch the replay on my website TheHorsesAdvocate.com/HorseTalk
Thank you for reading my thoughts about chronic protein deficiency. I hope you can attend the webcast.
I cannot find it now, but in the 70’s it was available, whey powder. And it may be a regional availability product.
Closest I can find in Florida is calf or goat milk replacer (non medicated).
I feed this as a protein / fat supplement.
I also feed one pound of soaked split green peas(for protein and lysine) to my now 31 year old sound, former distance, Arab mare.
Her base feed consists of soaked: beet pulp, bran, alfalfa pellets, black oil sun flower seeds, split peas and corn oil. No molasses anywhere.
Her forage consists of peanut hay, orchard grass hay and scrub florida pasture.
I do grate four carrots and one apple daily for her, but she has no carb issues.
2 ounces daily of Red Cell.
I enjoyed your article, very informative, written in easy to understand style. Just would add that poorly fitted tack and bad riding will also influence a horse’s topline, especially behind the withers area.
Thanks for your input
I have a couple of problems with your proposed solutions to protein deficiency. First, let’s talk “species appropriate” diets. This entails feeding an animal foods appropriate for their species. You feed dogs and cats meat. If you put them on a vegetarian diet, it will literally kill them. You don’t like meat? Don’t keep animals that require it. Horses are not carnivores nor are they omnivores. Whey is a by-product of milk. Milk is an animal-sourced food. This is not species-appropriate for horses. I therefore will not consider feeding my horse whey. Second, although soy is a plant and therefore more species-appropriate, more than 90% of soy crops today are genetically modified and just as bad, sprayed with the toxic and recognized as a carcinogen, weed killer glyphosate. You could use an organically-grown soy instead, yes, but soy also has phyto-estrogens which can cause a serious hormonal imbalance. I had my mare on a supplement for a short time that contained soy and she developed a hormonal imbalance rather quickly. When I realized the source I took her off the supplement and she became hormonally balanced again. So I thought about alfalfa, which is a high-protein hay, however, just as the soy it is now being genetically modified and sprayed with glyphosate. Of course an organically-grown alfalfa would work in that case, buy my mare gets more hyper when I feed her alfalfa so that leaves that out as well. Peanut-hay seems to be a good balance overall and she loves it, so that’s a better option. But that leaves out the higher requirements you recommend. What would be a better substitute than species-inappropriate whey and toxic dirty soy?
The point of this article is that horses are having a chronic protein deficiency especially when they are used for athletic purposes. I suggest 0.5 to 1.0 gram of protein per pound of body weight. How that is done is open to the owner, but it needs to be addressed. A variety is better than one source.
I am being overwhelmed with questions about protein and don’t have time to reply to them all. I will add your question to the list of questions to answer on the webcast on Sunday November 6 at 7pm eastern.
You can register or watch the replay on my website TheHorsesAdvocate.com/HorseTalk
Thank you for reading my thoughts about chronic protein deficiency. I hope you can attend the webcast.
I, too, was questioning this same thing regarding whey and soy. More and more horses are soy intolerant, which I believe is connected to the chemicals as well as the hormone disrupting properties of the phyto-estrogens. It would be very helpful to have some other options of protein sources in this topic for those with horses that cannot tolerate soy.
Where do you find that horses are “more and more intolerant” to soy beans? I haven’t seen that. There has been no reported effects of estrogens on horses with soy bean meal use and it has been used for decades in horses. If there is a report then the results should be compared to the feminization of all stallions through castration.
Soy beans are a legume and are not recommended for humans (lectin damage to the gut lining) but in horses, their digestive tract is fine with all legumes (soy bean, alfalfa, clover, peanuts).
Chemicals are used in all non-organic foods but you can find organic soy beans that have been de-hulled and oil removed (solvent extracted leaves no residual chemicals).
There are other sources of broad spectrum amino acids and you can use them. I recommend soy bean meal because of its high bioavailability and low cost. 1 pound a day (normal size horse) of soy bean meal with a flake of alfalfa fed every day over 4 to 6 months will replace the chronically lost protein. Once the horse has recovered their amino acid deficit then the amounts can be reduced.
We must remember that the REAL problem in almost ALL horses is the chronic protein deficiency due to the carbohydrate dependency brought about by feeding carbohydrates every day for years. No horse will have ill effects from feeding SBM for 6 months. After that the gut inflammation is eliminated and the amino acid reserves are restored. Then reduce the SBM or replace the protein source to something else.
How do you fees whey protein to a horse. I’m what form does it come. Can you recommend best hay supplements..ect…..
Thanks
I am being overwhelmed with questions about protein and don’t have time to reply to them all. I will add your question to the list of questions to answer on the webcast on Sunday November 6 at 7pm eastern.
You can register or watch the replay on my website TheHorsesAdvocate.com/HorseTalk
Thank you for reading my thoughts about chronic protein deficiency. I hope you can attend the webcast.
Could really use some suggestions. I moved to Texas in 07 and have struggled with maintaining weight on our barrel and rope horses. Have tried numerous expensive, popular feeds.. some folks well others not so much. Have gone back and fourth on different hay, have pastures but I know quality is not like back home. I’m spending a fortune and not very happy with results. Where do I find whey or soy in bulk?
Thanks
I am being overwhelmed with questions about protein and don’t have time to reply to them all. I will add your question to the list of questions to answer on the webcast on Sunday November 6 at 7pm eastern.
You can register or watch the replay on my website TheHorsesAdvocate.com/HorseTalk
Thank you for reading my thoughts about chronic protein deficiency. I hope you can attend the webcast.
I have a question for you..I have an appy mare that has health issues and cannot get a vet to diagnose her. Symptoms are , bloated belly but very underweight, does not get a winter coat, sweats profusely in the heat or under saddle, freezes if wet or weather gets chilly .In cold weather , i have to double up on blankets and keep her stalled and feed her warm mash and water . Any ideas?
Thanks
I am being overwhelmed with questions about protein and don’t have time to reply to them all. I will add your question to the list of questions to answer on the webcast on Sunday November 6 at 7pm eastern.
You can register or watch the replay on my website TheHorsesAdvocate.com/HorseTalk
Thank you for reading my thoughts about chronic protein deficiency. I hope you can attend the webcast.
Your article is very interesting and well written. I completely agree with your findings and hope you keep putting out these high quality articles. They are quite beneficial to everyone who love their horses.
Thanks
How much caf manna and corn would you feed?
Thanks
I am being overwhelmed with questions about protein and don’t have time to reply to them all. I will add your question to the list of questions to answer on the webcast on Sunday November 6 at 7pm eastern.
You can register or watch the replay on my website TheHorsesAdvocate.com/HorseTalk
Thank you for reading my thoughts about chronic protein deficiency. I hope you can attend the webcast.
I have a cushings mare age 21. she is on a low starch low sugar diet, would calf manna be appropriate for her. 35 years ago fed calf manna to youngsters and show horses for growth and coat condition
Thanks
I am being overwhelmed with questions about protein and don’t have time to reply to them all. I will add your question to the list of questions to answer on the webcast on Sunday November 6 at 7pm eastern.
You can register or watch the replay on my website TheHorsesAdvocate.com/HorseTalk
Thank you for reading my thoughts about chronic protein deficiency. I hope you can attend the webcast.
Wow! I absolutely loved reading your article. It was enlightening for me and I am definitely going to be changing up my horses feeding program, and reading more product labels. Thank You for taking the time to write this.
Thanks
Thank you, I found this information quite valuable!
Thanks
I have been working with my OTTB for 2 years to improve his TL . He gets access to good quality hay 24/7 as well as forage from paddock paradise . In addition I feed him soaked alfalfa hay cubes soaked beet pulp with added mineral mix as well as salt ground flax yeasaac chia seeds pumpkin seeds and turmeric paste . Would you consider this to be enough protein. He gets this mixture 2x day. His TL has improved about 50% in the last year but as you indicated his withers are still lacking in muscle.
Thanks
I am being overwhelmed with questions about protein and don’t have time to reply to them all. I will add your question to the list of questions to answer on the webcast on Sunday November 6 at 7pm eastern.
You can register or watch the replay on my website TheHorsesAdvocate.com/HorseTalk
Thank you for reading my thoughts about chronic protein deficiency. I hope you can attend the webcast.
Excellent article and after my horse has been treated for 3 years for lameness in his coffin joint with joint meds and IRAP and NSAIDs, work ups, x rays (shows he has 3 close spines), I have taken advice on his diet as I could never get enough topline on him. My vet did not advise me about protein but your article is spot on. I have taken advice from a nutritionist and a new farrier who is trimming my barefoot horse. He is almost sound and is beginning to put on muscle on the right diet given that has been diagnosed by PPID.
Thanks!
Good morning.. I remember feeding calf manna “. Back in the day”. But forgot the amount to feed.. what do you suggest?
It depends on the need of your horse and the amount of protein already being fed. Goal is 0.5 to 1.0 grams per pound of body weight.
Would micronised linseed or cool stance copra be a good quality additional protein source?
These add variety. Be sure to add the total amount of protein in terms of grams per pound of body weight.
Hi, and thank you. I have had Libby on Calf Manna several months and it has helped a lot! She had trouble getting up and is much better. Carolyn
Thanks for the update. It does take months.
This was very interesting. I bought a horse July 2015, he was a little obese. We do not have a lot of pasture. By Dec 2015 he had lost his top line and looked horrible. In Mar 2016 I consulted with a Nutrena rep. She suggested their 10/10 pellet and Pro Ad. Nothing to lose so we gave it a try. Here we are Oct 2016, he looks so much better but he is still lacking right behind the withers. After reading this and that it may take up to a year and that area is the last to recover, I’m going to keep him on the pellet and pro ad and see how he is until the year mark. I was getting lax on the pro ad because we weren’t seeing any more improvement, but after reading this I have hope he’ll continue to improve. Thanks!!
And you can add more – remember to calculate the grams of protein. Goal is about 1 gram per pound of body weight.
How can you add the calf manna if you are not giving grain? What do you recommend you add it to?
It is a pellet – they will eat it from your hand.
Just wondering how much Calf Manna a 1100 pound horse would need. The gram think confesses me… 1 cup? Thanks. 🙂
Give 1 pound a day of any whey/soy protein supplement if the product label says 40% protein.
40% of 454g (1 pound) = 182g
Bioavailability for whey plus soy is on average 85%. 85% of 182g = 155g
155g in addition to the hay and pasture is safe. More importantly, 1) whey and soy give a variety of amino acids many of which are missing in the diet and 2) eliminating the gut inflammation caused by grain is increasing the net absorption of all proteins.
I could not find this on the Nutrena website. Nutrena’s ProAdd Ultimate without corn. Since Windy is on renu gold she needs minerals especially because her hay gets soaked.
prognutrition.com – a subsidiary of nutrena
Excellent offering of information for all of us who own horses… Thank you for your efforts!
Thanks!
So thrilled to read this!! About two weeks ago I started mine on a plan very similar to what you have outlined. We have 12 horses altogether with different ages, breeds, uses etc and while struggling with their body issues the one thing I keep coming back to is the same thing; lack of proper protein and the amino acids needed. My issue has been with the topline in particular though I have questioned other small things as well. I got so excited to see this article and already I am keeping a journal of what we are doing. Thank you so much for valuable information!
Thanks!
How about cocunut which has a 20% protein rate?
Would it be better than the options you mentioned?
An alternative or addition – gives variety.
I am being overwhelmed with questions about protein and don’t have time to reply to them all. I will add your question to the list of questions to answer on the webcast on Sunday November 6 at 7pm eastern.
You can register or watch the replay on my website TheHorsesAdvocate.com/HorseTalk
Thank you for reading my thoughts about chronic protein deficiency. I hope you can attend the webcast.
This the best article I have ever seen on this topic. It is explained so well and apparently there is no monetary or social axe grinding in it either!
Thanks
What do you think about horse
???
Did you mean Pro Add Ultimate by Progressive ? I did not find this as a Nutrena product.
Yes, progressive nutrition
Right now I feed Nutrena’s Safe Choice Original twice a day and the graze 3 times a week on grass.
Do I add Manna Pro Calf Manna or Nutrena’s Pro Add Ultimate to the Safe Choice or do I just feed grass/hay and either Manna Pro Calf/Nutrena’s Pro Add Ultimate?
Thanks
I am being overwhelmed with questions about protein and don’t have time to reply to them all. I will add your question to the list of questions to answer on the webcast on Sunday November 6 at 7pm eastern.
You can register or watch the replay on my website TheHorsesAdvocate.com/HorseTalk
Thank you for reading my thoughts about chronic protein deficiency. I hope you can attend the webcast.
So my first thought after reading this is: Why don’t I just give a Lysine, Methionine, Threonine supplement? So I went looking for that, but the only one I can find is Tri-Amino – which contains synthetic methionine! And does not list carrier substrate, additives etc. on the label. Which I know is considered “normal” (incomplete disclosure on labels) for equine supplements but still bugs the heck out of me!
Then I think: Wait a minute! And I go check the ingredient list of the Horse Tech High Point pellets I’m already feeding (Dr. Juliet Getty’s recommendation) and yes, it does contain these 3 needed aminos (amounts not disclosed), but again, the methionine is in synthetic form. GAH.
I have been feeding Tri-Amino for years to my TB and it is one of the few supplements that I can say I honestly feel like it makes a difference to her topline. Synthetic or not, I believe it helps.
Great article. I immediately went out and collected the ingredient tags from the three feeds I use. All three have lycine and methionine, but only the senior and the mare and foal feed has threonine. I asked hubby to pick up the recommended calf manna, and discovered that tag also does NOT list threonine. ???
I enjoyed your article. Since we spoke last year when my horses had been with a trainer and getting grain from him, I have kept them on pasture plus peanut hay and a very small amount of grain a couple of times a week. We have had no health problems at all and they seem great. Pretty calm, also. I will switch to the manna-pro or Nutrena instead of the feed we have.