[DinahC]

Hi Doc T.

My 15 yo WB mare had her dental appointment a few weeks back. I have used the same dentist since purchasing her at 18 months of age. Unfortunately due to my tardiness, the gap between 2022 and 2023 floats was 13 months. At the time of her 2022 float, Praline had been on the grain free diet for just over 2 months. I asked for a report on the general condition of her mouth and teeth. His response was “all normal for a14yo horse. Not bad as I see her annually”.

This year, I decided not to ask that question again as assumed I’d get the same answer. However, of his own accord, he reported that Praline doesn’t have a mouth of an old horse. She’s got a young mouth. Definitely not that of a 15yo.”

During 2022, I had to remove the SBM from her diet for 6 months as realised that it was the SBM that she was allergic too. However, she did not go onto grain as replacement. I kept her grain free. With the interventions I took in those 6 months, she can now tolerate a small portion of SBM daily.

My question…. Is this your finding that horses on high protein, grain free diet maintain a younger mouth as well? I see the rest of the body appears to become more youthful, so it goes to figure the mouth will too.

Unfortunately won’t be joining the meeting. Will listen to the podcast when available. Tx

[Doc-t]

Thanks for this report and question, which I will be addressing tonight.

[DinahC]

Thanks for your input.

I am the member from South Africa that is adding the yeast as a probiotic to the straight SBM or SBM Coolstance mix. It’s definitely helping all the horses who are on this Grain free diet and I’ve even recommended to owners whose horses are only lucky enough to have the SBM added to their premix to at least boost the % protein. These are the owners who have their horses in riding school/livery care and yard managers are not willing to allow the owners to stop feeding the premix. I know, it’s not ideal, but it’s complicated and I don’t want to upset my client’s in chosen their yard.

I feel I must clarify that the yeast I’m adding is Bakers yeast. Not Brewers yeast nor nutritional yeast. It’s the instant active dry yeast we have available in our supermarkets for making bread. The minimum being fed is 10g and at the moment, the max 42g/day. Some horses really bloated on the SBM and with the yeast added, they are no longer do bloated. I am still battling the big belly that is hanging too far rearward. I’ve had to P r4 r4ut 3 horses on another probiotic, one has remained on the yeast and also getting a liquid probiotic that reqs refrigeration.

[Doc-t]

@DinahC Thanks for the details and my apology for not correctly saying Baker’s Yeast.

I have a thought – could it be that SBM in South Africa (or the product you are getting in your area) is made differently than in other areas? There are a lot of horses eating SBM both alone or as part of a commercial feed and I’ve been using it since 1973. I don’t hear of horses bloating on it or having other reactions. This said, there is another discussion recently posted about a horse losing hair on the shoulder after removing grain and adding SBM. No itching, biting or mutilation though.

Just for clarity, SBM is made from whole soybeans that have been dehulled and the oil extracted (usually solvent extracted but can also be pressed out), and then it is heated to a specific temperature to denature the enzyme trypsin inhibitor. Often a “flow agent” is added for moving the SBM smoothly through the machinery.

I’m wondering if this is what your product is or if they have done this differently. Any thoughts?

[DinahC]

<div>Apologies… My previous msg has been scrambled up a bit at the end of it</div>

I am also adding cabbage to the horses diets to give L-glutamine. This seems to be included in all the yeast based probiotic products available. The horses love the cabbage. It’s fed as a treat in place of apples/carrots etc. Those who don’t get treats have a handful added to their SBM.

[DinahC]

Clarity on the comment I made about my mare being allergic to the SBM. Allergic might not be the right descriptor but allergies are protein driven (to my knowledge) and her response is rubbing, itching and biting herself to a point of creating lesions suggests an allergy imo. So when I removed the SBM from her diet and she was less reactive and the self mutilation reduced, I connected the dots and felt it was the SBM. For 6 months she lived on Coolstance, 50g soaked splits peas. I know split peas are not ideal but it was the only protein source I could find that didn’t cause significant itching, biting, rubbing.

In Nov last year I started with the yeast.

In Jan this year, I added a small amount SBM to her diet again and took the split peas out and she’s doing quite well in general. Not completely free of the self mutilation but hugely better. Having her on the yeast has definitely helped her and from mid March she started on another probiotic. With these 2 probiotics in her diet, I’m hopeful she can handle more SBM. I’m going to try increase her quantity this month and see how she copes.

For the record, I have barely ridden her in the last2 years for a number of reasons. She is finally able and willing to walk in hand as she has the energy from the SBM, her hoof tissue can handle the ground and the probiotics are increasing the comfort of her gut.

[DinahC]

In reply to your question about SBM in SA….here in Cape Town, we get ours imported from Argentina. It’s 47% protein, 2.5 % fat and 3.5 % fibre. I think it’s the same product you get in the USA.

From the research I did when sourcing the SBM initially, it certainly sounded like the same.

As for the report of the horse losing hair on the shoulder since moving to SBM, it sounds exactly like my mare was initially. If she could not find anything to rub on, she’d bite herself. I don’t know if it’s allergy or intolerance but it was extremely uncomfortable for her. That’s why I took her off the SBM back in June 22. I had to give her some relief.

Since adding the yeast to her diet, she’s manging a small amount of SBM (270g/day) much better. It’s definitely not adequate. But just this week I decided to try her on a bigger quantity. I added 135g to her daily intake making it 405g . Within 18hrs I saw she was rubbing again. Not so much biting but definitely rubbing. I decided to increase the other probiotic I have her on as first test to see if she can then cope with increased SBM. I’ll only see her tomorrow but a friend at the yard said my mare was looking good and she didn’t observe any rubbing behavior this evening. I shall see her tomorrow so will check in with an update.

For horses losing hair in anyway, I would strongly recommend experimenting with yeast, or yeast based probiotic first. If the yeast doesn’t help, try a different probiotic. I do not choose probiotics that do not indicate the ingredients/actual strain of probiotic in the product.

I shall post a couple photos shortly of how badly my mare was affected by the rubbing.

[DinahC]

[DinahC]

Further update…. So with doubling up on the 2nd probiotic, which is a locally made product that is liquid and requires refrigeration, Praline is definitely coping better with the increased quantity of SBM. Whilst she doesn’t look beautiful, she at least has not rubbed significantly and certainly not made new bare patches. I did take photos on Sat but still need to reduce the size as too big to upload.

What was very interesting was that she was very reluctant to take a walk in hand with me. In fact, absolutely determined not to walk. This stubborn behavior I know so well from before I started adding the Yeast in Nov. Little did I know at the time on Sat afternoon that she had not had her yeast in her breakfast that day. So just 1 meal without the yeast and she, this is how I read it, is unable to process the SBM adequately and has an increased level of discomfit in her gut, so unwilling to do more than she’s comfortable doing. For the record, this stubborn behavior was present even on previous “grain free” and grain based premix products she’s been fed over the years. So it’s not specifically related to SBM. I regard it as having a seriously out of kilter microbiome. I am hoping that in time, she will be able to cope without the probiotic crutches. But if at this point she needs them, then so be it. It’s a very small and truthfully the only approach I am seeing help her heal and thus be able to thrive in this human world in the future!