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New to the Challenge
Hi Dr T,
I wonder if you could tell me if you think I’m on the right track here, or if I’m misunderstanding anything?
Prior to hearing your podcast, which led me to your blog, and now to joining this community, this is what I was doing to try to help my horse loose weight and get healthy:
5-6 days a week of exercise, gradually increasing intensity as fitness level increases.
Hay (No pasture where I live): 1:4 ratio of Teff Grass and Mature stage Bermuda Hay started at 2% of body weight and gradually reduced to 1.75%. I was feeding out of slow feed nets throughout the day and night, so the longest time she was without hay in front of her was around 4 hours in the afternoon, and another 5 hours from midnight to morning feeding.
1 pound ration balancer.
This has been the protocol for four months and she has achieved a slow rate of weight loss continuously, but she still has fat pads and feet that need to improve.
My plan going forward:
I already removed the ration balancer and purchased SBM (soy bean meal). I want to make sure that I’m not adding protein on top of too much sugar/starch, so I’ve started soaking the hay, and I will gradually reduce it to 1.5% of body weight.
Taking into consideration your hormesis information, and that we are going into winter, I plan to try feeding all of the hay in the day and try the fasting at night, roughly 5pm to 5am, and watch for signs of stress. Does this sound like a good starting point from which to closely observe her for changes?
On Alfalfa-
If I were to add 4 pounds of alfalfa by reducing 4 pounds of Bermuda, by the average hay analysis of the two, I would be reducing the sugar further (my hay has not been tested) and increasing the protein and calories. But since she has been achieving weight loss on the current grass hay, and I’m now soaking it, I thought I might only add one thing at a time starting with the SBM. Does that seem reasonable? Would I be looking for signs that she’s not satiated enough at the current level of protein that would indicate a need for alfalfa? Or would adding alfalfa now for the benefit of reducing sugar further be the better choice?
Thanks so much for all your help. I will report back on the results of my experiment.
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10 Replies
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Taking into consideration your hormesis information, and that we are going into winter, I plan to try feeding all of the hay in the day and try the fasting at night, roughly 5pm to 5am, and watch for signs of stress. Does this sound like a good starting point from which to closely observe her for changes?
Yes, this is a good starting point but keeping good observations is important. Remember that fat loss is the goal but this also reveals the current muscle loss. Be patient as muscle takes time to grow. Also, when you say all the hay will be fed during the day, have the last flake or two fed at 5 pm so there is something to pick at. Soaking the hay will remove the sugar which is the most important part of the plan. Removing the sugar helps with mitochondrial flexibility (preference of fat for fuel) which in turns helps with hormesis.
If I were to add 4 pounds of alfalfa by reducing 4 pounds of Bermuda, by the average hay analysis of the two, I would be reducing the sugar further (my hay has not been tested) and increasing the protein and calories.
It is NOT the calories. This misinformation has been told to us in human nutrition but in reality, fat accumulation is a hormonal problem. The hormone is insulin which prevents the fat cell from releasing the fat within for use by the muscles. Once the fat is released and is used for fuel, the body starts to run more efficiently and satiation occurs. Less food will then be consumed due to the increased efficiency of running the operations of the body.
But since she has been achieving weight loss on the current grass hay, and I’m now soaking it, I thought I might only add one thing at a time starting with the SBM. Does that seem reasonable?
Yes, this is smart along with recording everything and being patient.
Would I be looking for signs that she’s not satiated enough at the current level of protein that would indicate a need for alfalfa? Or would adding alfalfa now for the benefit of reducing sugar further be the better choice?
There is no need to add alfalfa. Some people add 1 flake of alfalfa while others feed only alfalfa and no grass hay. It really is up to you, what your horse is used to and what is available in your area. For me, there is no real advantage to feeding alfalfa over grass but by adding 1 flake a day, the horse gets a bit of variety in amino acids. However, alfalfa doesn’t provide more “high quality protein” like SBM. It is only a “good quality protein” as it does not provide all the essential amino acids. In addition, you can’t use a blanket statement that alfalfa has less sugar. Only testing for non-structural carbohydrates (starch) will tell you the quantity and it varies between farms and cuttings.
Satiation (lack of food aggression) usually occurs within the first week of removing all inflammatory ingredients. The additional high quality protein (SBM) will gradually ease the horse over to true satiation in about 2 to 6 weeks depending on their condition.
I really look forward to your future reports. I am also amazed by the brown hills in your picture. Here in FL as well as all the way up the east coast is nothing but green (with a bit of autumn colors starting in New England). Doc T
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Thank you very much for your reply and clarifications! I really appreciate it.
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We are on the 5th day of trading ration balancer for soy bean meal, soaking our hay, and implementing a longer period at night without food in front of the horses. We have five of them who all live together, four of which are mustangs who’ve struggled to loose fat (I take responsibility for making them fat to begin with). Tonight when I checked on them at 5pm they were all happily napping together with hay still remaining in their slow feed nets. This is quite a positive change, as it is normally an eager race to empty the feeders and it’s unsettling for me to have horses that act like they’re starving despite getting plenty of food.
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Great news! And good job notating your observations.
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Glad you are seeing improvements already. The contentment and lack of meal-time anxiety is a common improvement observed on this diet. Your horses are right on schedule!
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Thanks Kathy for your encouraging observation for Emily based on your experience.
I agree that “food aggression” is a common observation that the mitochondria are running solely on glucose while the improvement in this behavior indicates mitochondria flexibility is occurring. The new source for fat as fuel is the body fat.
It is helpful to think that as you see the body fat reduce, the more important “unseen” observation is inflammation reduction and improved cellular health (hormesis and autophagy).
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We are two weeks in and we have continued fat loss in the mustangs. Time will tell if its my imagination or not, but it really looks as if they are loosing at a faster rate now. We have been working at achieving fat loss for almost six months now, but the rate has been slow before the recent changes of eliminating ration balancer, soaking and reducing hay, and having a fasting period at night.
I have detailed observations on each horse, but here are some highlights so far: <div>
</div><div> Whisper (5 y/o mustang): ✔️ Fat loss. Nicknamed “lumpy” because she’s been prone to getting mystery lumps or bumps that resolve on their own, and seem unrelated and inconsequential to our vet. At the start of the challenge she had a grape-sized lump on her face that’s neither grown nor shrunk for 3 months. It disappeared completely during the challenge. She is a bit prone to anxiety about unknowns and about being handled by anyone other than her primary handler. We have observed a better mental state in her lately and great responses to training. </div><div>
</div><div> Meadow (6 y/o mustang): ✔️ Fat loss. Meadow had lumpy fat deposits over her ribs and even as she’s lost weight overall, those have still persisted. I can barely detect any unevenness as I look and feel over her barrel now. She still has a thin layer of fat, but I can feel ribs, and the ugly deposits are leaving. Training has been going very well. Every week her workouts slightly increase, and the fitter and lighter she gets, the less resistant she is to being asked a little more. She is transitioning from wearing shoes for over a year to barefoot and she was six weeks in to that at the start of this challenge. In this cycle, her hoof walls are holding up better, and she seems to be growing plenty of foot despite also growing her winter coat (SBM?). Her coat does feel softer and her summer skin itches have gone away, though the flies are all dead now too with the change of season. I’ll be eager to see if her skin does any better next fly season on the SBM.</div><div>
</div><div>Jane (5 y/o mustang): ✔️ Very noticeable fat loss. Seems content even with the reduction of food and the overnight fasting (she was the one I most worried about with this). Mild watery eyes resolved completely within 24 hours, even while flies were still present (no dust in hay? Or elimination of balancer?)
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</div><div>Teddy (2 y/o mustang): Not much to note, as he didn’t have excess fat to loose but we were concerned with not letting him put it on to begin with, with his mom’s genetics. He is a healthy weight and has been very trainable and happy. I do look back and see some behavioral changes in him through a new lens. He was born here at home to Meadow and raised on grain until 6 months ago when we knew we had a problem with Meadow’s weight on the same diet. He was more difficult to train than we expected, and we ended up gelding him early because of it, and we thought it kind of strange due to his mother’s lovely and easy going personality and him receiving the exact same lifestyle and handling. When we reduced the grain from 4lbs a day of a 27% NSC feed, to the one pound a day of ration balancer, we pretty rapidly became better horse trainers and Teddy finally “matured”. I’m joking of course, and I now see the correlation of him being a young guy amped up on sugar, and I’m very thankful we’ve found your educational resources and further eliminated the ration balancer as well. </div>
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Thanks for taking the time to give this very clear observations of your horses on no grain and no inflammatory ingredients plus SBM.
Even though I often hear testimonials like this I still get excited when I hear them – and so grateful that more horses are experiencing an improved life through your efforts.
Of course, you know what the price is of becoming your horse’s advocate – you need to let others know. Through multiplying our voices more and more horses will benefit.
Grateful – Doc T
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I enjoyed reading your findings Emily! I found my mustang cross laying down napping when I thought he would normally be demanding food as well. I really enjoy seeing that. Also when I lead him out to hand graze for a few minutes (grazing paddocks shut down for winter here in Canada) he now walks calmly beside me. He used to trot trying to get to the grass faster. I tried training this out of him before but it turns out it wasn’t a training issue.
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🤠👍
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