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Should my horse’s teeth be extracted due to EOTRH?
Horse Diseases (Cushing’s)
Am I making the correct decision for my horse by not having his teeth extracted due to EOTRH? My horse is a 23 year old TB who in October began medication for cushings. In December I discovered he has advanced EOTRH. I attach x-rays of his front teeth. My vet advises that all 12 front teeth should be extracted. Most of the upper teeth are slightly loose. I am hoping instead to manage his pain until the time comes for him to be put to sleep but how do I know how much pain he is in? My vet advises that pain management should only be short term. My horse’s demeaner has improved significantly since taking the Prascend for cushings. He still manages to graze, doesn’t object to being bridled and still goes well in his bit. He just seems to have “down” days. I purchased some Equident from Mushroom Matrix in the in the hope that this slows down the progression of the disease and wonder if this also helps with pain management. I am about to see how he is having come off a course of 3 weeks of bute.
His cheek teeth also need rasping and I’m advised that the usual speculum is probably going to be too painful for him. I understand that a padded speculum could be used. He gets food stuck in his cheeks. Is this because he puts it there to protect himself or does the food accumulate for other reason?
Many thanks
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9 Replies
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1) Adding the shredded mushrooms is excellent for EOTRH but only if you also remove the cause. In my opinion the cause is from the lectins of grains causing the autoimmune reaction of the underlying bone. If you haven’t done so, please read this blog: What Is The Cause Of EOTRH In Horses? And you also might be interested in this one: Speechless In A Case Of EOTRH In A Horse
2) Long term bute will work but also disrupts the microbiota of the gut. To test for pain just observe as you are doing. Grazing is a good measure. Although I am against carrots and apples, they can be used to determine if there is pain in the incisors. But really, is this important when he continues to eat pasture and hay?
3) I have floated teeth since 1983 without using a speculum. It is possible. Find a dentist willing to NOT use a speculum and you will be OK. See HorsemanshipDentistry.com
4) If you eliminate all grains and grain byproducts (including cookies and balancers) and add mushrooms you may see less inflammation and possibly some tightening of the teeth. However, if he loses a few incisors you may never know it unless you lift his lips. BUT, if you extract all of the incisors at one time you will always see his tongue as the teeth will no longer be there to keep his tongue inside the mouth. And even without incisors he will still be able to harvest pasture. Please see the videos here: https://www.thehorsesadvocate.com/horse-dental-basic-care/ and here: https://www.thehorsesadvocate.com/horse-oral-cavity-neoplasia/ and here: (you need to complete the previous units) https://www.thehorsesadvocate.com/module-1/equine-dentistry-essentials-the-specialized-hypsodont-teeth/
5) Food gets “stuck” in the cheeks usually because the points on the teeth are so sharp he doesn’t want to move the tongue over them to clean out the areas. There are some horses who will pack the area to protect the cheeks from the sharp points. For both reasons, removing the sharp edges will help.
6) I also believe that Cushing’s disease is secondary to chronic protein loss from feeding excess sugar and underfeeding high quality protein. See this video: https://www.thehorsesadvocate.com/horse-cushings-disease/ as well as read all the blogs on chronic protein deficiency.
I think that covers it. Doc T
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A friend was able to save her 25yo EOTRH horse’s teeth when Doc T recommended she try Equident. Local vet was recommending extraction but the situation has been greatly improved. Hopefully you will experience similar results. 🤞
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Thank you Kathy 🙂
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I rescued a horse recently, he is a 23 year old OTTB that was eating a senior feed with beet pulp (I think Triple Crown senior) He has acclimated quickly to the SBM and cool stance alfalfa cubes and hay. But he does have pretty significant EOTRH. He has lost one bottom incisor since coming here. He grazes normally, coat is good. I see that there is a Equident supplement. Should I order that right away or wait a couple more months to see how he’s doing on this program?
On another note, https://aaep.org/horsehealth/feeding-beet-pulp?fbclid=IwAR3Vx_Hko09zQww6V4v6KdyUESNxOFN1KMU-uVjAodTq9Cx9K5Jn4IPORVE I had that ad come across my FB feed recently, it makes me crazy. I guess the vet community wants to keep in business.
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Add the Equident right away to reduce the inflammation from the EOTRH. This will help as soon as you start and the new diet will help to prevent any further advancement.
Sugar beet pulp is relatively new to the horse world (20+ years) and is a waste product of sugar extraction for human consumption. It is said to have a high glycemic index which means it is digested by the gut bacteria in the colon. This, in general, is good but I am not sure that it is necessary nor that it helps in horses that are heading towards insulin resistance / obesity. As far as adding on more body fat, it will do that. I prefer to add body fat to under-fat horses using other means as these horses are usually also under-muscled.
Thank @Lei for this question and link.
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I don’t see a picture with your post. I’m viewing on a phone.
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This looks like an immune reaction with serum. Causes could include bites from an insect or a contact dermatitis or from a puncture from thorns. There could be a lot of other reasons. However you said these were only on the hind limbs. I assume your horse isn’t in a standing stall (slip stall) or is restricted so the hind limbs are exposed to something the front limbs are not. Maybe this is only affecting a certain color of skin (white versus pigmented) which could be associated with a plant toxin.
Another consideration would be a very mild form of lymphangitis with serum weeping. I would expect there would be limb edema (swelling) but you did not indicate this.
Skin lesions require a methodical approach to collecting data and history. Be thorough and then report these findings to your vet where appropriate samples can be taken (impressions, cultures, biopsy). The image of the serum droplet does tend to lean towards an immune response.
As far as Cushing’s disease (CD) and this is related, I don’t see it. CD, in my opinion, is a neurodegenerative disease as stated at an AAEP conference. In addition, the treatment (Prascend or pergolide) is a dopamine agonist (a neurotransmitter replacement). My thoughts on CD are told in my video on CD in the associated topics section. In your question, I do not see CD being related to the lesion in your photo – but your vet can help you with this.
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Oh sorry 😬 I thought I’d embedded it but hopefully it’s now attached thnx!
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thanks!
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