Because I’m clearly not spending enough money…

[Doc-t]

@KarenM

What do you think is causing the “Dark Remy?” The image looks like a well formed top line on him. Do you think this is associated with SBM?

As far as hemp goes, there is one client in NY (she is a member here) who is a big fan of hemp as a protein source. She has investigated it with some help from others including Dr Getty who says that hemp protein is 74% versus SBM at about 48%. Unfortunately we still do not know the bioavailability so we do not know the effective amount of protein. Dr Getty believes that hemp protein may be about 80% bioavailable which is about equivalent to SBM but the data is sketchy. In other word we still do not know accurately how much of hemp (hemp hearts) to feed to get the desired amount of protein. Dr Getty says that 4 tablespoons of hemp powder is 22g of “pure protein” which I assume means that all essential amino acids are included – like SBM.

Dr Getty also said that hemp hearts has had the outer hull removed and “most of the fat removed.” However, I am not finding that the hemp is heat treated or if it does not need to be heat treated to remove inhibitory enzymes like SBM.

For me it comes down to this:

• SBM (soybean meal) has been used for over 5 decades and is safe for horses (PSSM horses an exception)
• SBM is less expensive and more available.
• Hemp hearts is less tested in horses therefore has less data – and in my pessimistic mind, has a bias in the data (tested by those who want hemp to be sold)

Finally, how is removing SBM and adding hemp going to affect Remy? Why is the “dark side” suddenly appearing? Could there be a weed or plant blooming in the pasture or is the summer heat or flies to be blamed? I would look at the sugar content of the pasture which is reaching maximum levels in the summer growing season (or try eliminating or soaking the hay to reduce total sugar per day). I will need more details to look at this issue you asked about here.

Keep us posted if you do try hemp protein (effect, availability, cost, etc).

[KarenM]

I don’t believe the sbm is the issue. He definitely had colic symptoms (stretching, grimacing, kicking when his sides were touched.) If I only look at feed, the sbm and alfalfa are the only things that have stayed the same in 4 years (meaning, sbm was in his commercial feed at the beginning.) Pasture has changed, hay has changed, location has changed, turnout time has changed (he’s now out 24/7) but he’s generally the healthiest and happiest he’s ever been. Last year he colicked up to once a week. That was fun.

I read Dr Getty’s material. I wondered about the bioavailability of hemp meal since I couldn’t find anything online. Last year my vet suspected some variant of PSSM2 after trying to nail this down. There is some thought that frequent colic episodes could be a symptom of that and of course there’s no reliable test. I’m considering the hemp primarily because of its supposed anti-inflammatory properties. There is a suggestion hemp may help PSSM horses (if he indeed is one) and thought I’d try it for a month or three. It’s stated amino acid profile/protein value was a plus.

The feeding rate is 1/2 cup per day (no idea what it weighs). However, I wonder if combining it with sbm would keep the benefit of the sbm (I’d reduce the amount) and *maybe* add the supposed anti-inflammatory properties?

[Doc-t]

I attended a conference last night that discussed leaky gut where they associated that with “leaky brain.” They said the blood-brain barrier is also leaking when the gut barrier is leaking and that is the reason for the behavior you state here (and we have associated with gut inflammation). I might agree with this. Now for their reasoning why…

They said stress is the most common cause of leaky gut. Of course, ALL of the presenters are researchers for grain companies. They would NEVER say that grain is the problem. But their point that physical and emotional stress causes leaky gut is a valid one but it is in addition to inflammatory feeds.

Your horse may still be recovering from years of inflammatory damage plus his “personality” may just be the kind that not only blunts the microvilli of the intestines and separates the enterocytes (leaky gut) but it also causes the genetic expression (epigenetics) of PSSM2. All can be transient but all show up at once until things calm down again.

We, the care givers of horses, often underestimate the effect of changing a horse environment (new farm, new pasture time, new neighbors, etc). This may have profound adverse effects on horses just like it affects some humans. I saw it on plane trips where seasoned travelers were confident and were intolerant of stressed, first time flyers lost in the airport. There may be other changes you don’t recognize. For instance in June in Florida the mating season of alligators create a barking noise unfamiliar to those who have never heard it. In another barn south of Tampa the owners installed surveillance cameras only to find out that black bears were visiting inside the barn at night. Anything could be happening that will increase stress as the secure feeling he had at the previous barn has been replaced with unknowns. We are blind to these unknowns.

The fact that you have established certain food and routines may be important with Remy. But you cannot control the changes in pasture or hay or unknown factors in his environment. Remember that the sugar content of summer pasture is higher than the dormant winter. Being out 24/7 may not require any hay until late fall. As we want to try to add or change something to “fix” something remember that there are already changes going on and “adding something” may not be as effective as finding the cause and removing it.

Over time and with your consistent help, Remy should adjust just like he did in the past with you as you assumed his care. Document everything you do. Look at removing causes first before adding anything. He seems to be sensitive so you have your work to do to find this cause for the behavior change. Ah, the fun of owning horses…

[KarenM]

Thanks – that puts in in perspective.

[KarenM]

Circling back to the hemp discussion. I found a study abstract copyrighted by the American Chemical Society (link below) evaluating the quality of protein in hemp seed. Since there are no studies on horses, is it reasonable to think the values in this study, which were pulled from something done with rats, would be similar?

I decided to order hemp from Dr Getty as a test. Too late, I realized I ordered dehulled hearts instead of meal so what I received contains oil. I can’t return the product. I reduced the sbm to 12 oz (by weight), and added just 2 oz hemp. I may stop the sbm and just feed the hemp for 2 months (will deplete my supply). If the values are that similar to sbm there should be no effect. I’ll document.

Coincidently, Remy has been in a better humor since I added the hemp about 10 days ago but I have no way of knowing what prompted the turnaround. He’s always been a Jekyll and Hyde guy.

*disclaimer: I’m not advocating. I was initially interested in some of the anti-inflammatory claims and friends seem to be having good luck with it. One swears it has reduced stall walking.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/jf102636b#

[Doc-t]

The PDCAAS method (Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score) is used in the study you linked to. As this was only an abstract, there are a lot of questions raised that the full article may or may not address. First question is what is the PDCAAS method?

The PDCAAS method is used to evaluate the quality of the protein being evaluated (hemp) based on the human requirements for the essential amino acids and their ability to digest it. The measurement is taken after the protein is digested but NOT after it is absorbed and used by the body. In addition, the rating derived from this method is compared to a human between 2 and 5 years of age. A PDCAAS score of 1.0 is the best score. In this study the value was between 0.63 and 0.66 for de-hulled hemp seed.

The BV (Biological Value) of a protein measures the absorbed nitrogen from a meal of protein that is retained by the animal and therefore presumed to be used for protein synthesis. This value can be affected by the absorption of protein due to gut inflammation and many other factors.

I use the BV for SBM and I would also use it for hemp but that value is not known. However using PDCAAS as a measurement of protein quality has limitations. In one study here (https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/127/5/758/4724217), the abstract states this: “These data demonstrate that the PDCAAS method is inappropriate for predicting protein quality of those protein sources which may contain naturally occurring growth-depressing factors or antinutritional factors formed during alkaline and/or heat processing.”

The full report has other interesting things to say including:

“The PDCAAS method also does not take into account bioavailability of individual amino acids, which may be up to 44% lower than the overall digestibility of protein in the same food product.”

“Since the introduction of the PDCAAS method by FAO/WHO (1991), several questions about the validity of the method have been raised (Food Chemical News 1991, Sarwar and Peace 1994). Some of these concerns were also documented by this investigation. Therefore, there is a need to address these issues, and to suggest proper revisions to the scoring method. Meanwhile, the PDCAAS remains the preferred method for routine prediction of protein quality of properly processed (containing minimal amounts of residual antinutritional factors) and highly digestible (where the overall digestibility of protein is a good approximation of bioavailability of individual amino acids) food products for human consumption.”

The report you listed here is a great example of the smoke and mirrors seen in all of science today. I talked about this in 2 of my podcasts (“The Parachute Study” and “The Right To Prevent.”). The bottom line for you is to do what you are doing and report what happens. What Remy does with or without hemp will never be accurately determined because of the other changing factors in your observations. The only thing to remember is where he was when you first took ownership responsibilities and where he is today. Trying for minor improvements may be elusive and confusing due to the abundant ever-changing factors (new turn out, new horses, new environmental noises, new seasonal forage, new hay, new temperatures / humidity, etc).

This may be too much information. The articles here are at a high scientific level. But I still hope this reply helps. We all look forward to your results over time. If possible, get an unbiased and “blind” observer (farrier, vet, girl friend) to help with your observations. Thanks for this interesting topic.